Comments on IR1: Verbal Momentum

Found some tips in here... Not sure about it all, ...

2007-03-21T08:27:00.000-07:00

Found some tips in here... Not sure about it all, but was useful. keep it up

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2007-02-24T09:47:00.000-08:00

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2007-02-16T12:31:00.000-08:00

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2006-04-12T00:16:00.000-07:00

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2006-01-13T17:52:00.000-08:00

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". . . factual arguments spill out from the admini...

2005-12-06T13:10:00.000-08:00

". . . factual arguments spill out from the administration all the time, they just are not covered by the Dem press. If you are looking for facts on Iraq, get ready for one on the 15th. Do you even know what I am talking about?"

Are you referring to the fact that Iraq is having elections on Dec. 15? The elections have been covered widely in the media, so if that is what you're talking about, I don't why you're acting like that is some repressed story. The elections are definitely a big step forward for Iraq, if they produce a lasting democracy. The questions we have to ask are 1) whether Iraq's chance of having a lasting, stable democracy was worth the all of the negative impacts the Iraq war has had, and will continue to have, on our countries long-term diplomatic, economic, and national security interests; and 2) whether Iraq's chance of having lasting, stable democracy was worth the Bush administration lying to the American people about WMD evidence.

Also, complaining about the "liberal" or "Dem" press's coverage of Iraq, in the wake of the Plame/Judith Miller scandal, is pretty absurd, and ignores the facts underlying the entire investigation. The NY Times and the Wash. Post have both apologized for not investigating the Bush administration's WMD claims more independently (in the Times' case, I believe 4 of the 6 stories they apologized for were Miller's). Frankly, the media had done its job prior to the war, there's no way we would have invaded under the WMD rationale (and please don't use the Rove strategy of just lying and saying that wasn't the rationale - we all have access to Colin Powell's presentation to the UN, which he's since called a "blot" on his record).

If anything, the media has downplayed the forged documents themselves (example from nsarchive.org) - which should be a much bigger part of the Plame story, and the debate over invading Iraq.

For months I have been sending emails and posting ...

2005-12-06T12:47:00.000-08:00

For months I have been sending emails and posting comments titled:

Machiavelli Smiles

Machiavelli Giggles

Machiavelli Laughs

The flooded schoolbuses
in NO sure was a Giggle.

Think we are approaching:

Machiavelli Roars

and

Machiavelli Wets His Pants.

Thanks for terrific post linked to by Glenn Reynolds.

"Verbal momentum."I've seen the phenomenon in acti...

2005-12-06T11:48:00.000-08:00

"Verbal momentum."

I've seen the phenomenon in action. I used to be a law clerk in an appellate court, and I got paid to watch a lot of lawyers make fools of themselves. One of the judges on our court used to be a master at using people's verbal momentum against them. During oral argument, he'd induce a lawyer to extend his position further . . . and further . . . down the garden path . . . then whammo! he trips the ambush (that is, points out the glaring hole in the lawyer's argument) and leaves the poor sod standing there in his Brooks Brothers suit looking stupid. Thing was, this judge was an equal-opportunity sort, and he'd usually do it to both sides on a case, just to keep 'em on their toes.

p.s. Sorry for the double-comment under two names;...

2005-12-06T11:34:00.000-08:00

p.s. Sorry for the double-comment under two names; blogger.com was kinda acting up, sigh.

Steve,What you call verbal momentum (nice phrase, ...

2005-12-06T11:33:00.000-08:00

Steve,

What you call verbal momentum (nice phrase, btw) is common amongst like-minded groups: without an opposing voice to check their excesses, they tend to move more and more to the extreme of their position as they vie to outdo each other; one-upsmanship run amok.

Neil,

IIRC, didn't Ben Spock, late in life, recant at least his child-rearing teachings? I sometimes think of that when I watch the rather inscrutable immaturity of so many chronologically grown people, and I ask myself rhetorically, do these people have too little self-esteem, or too much?

Steve,What you call verbal momentum (nice phrase, ...

2005-12-06T11:32:00.000-08:00

Steve,What you call verbal momentum (nice phrase, ...

2005-12-06T11:31:00.000-08:00

Steve,What you call verbal momentum (nice phrase, ...

2005-12-06T11:30:00.000-08:00

Mr. Spock indeed came off as emotionless, but Vulc...

2005-12-06T10:52:00.000-08:00

Mr. Spock indeed came off as emotionless, but Vulcan culture on Star Trek had a very strict code of ethics. I thus question likening Hillary Clinton to Mr. Spock.

ross: SOB does have a certain ring to it!! Well ...

2005-12-06T10:42:00.000-08:00

ross: SOB does have a certain ring to it!! Well done!

Problem is, Thad, factual arguments spill out from...

2005-12-06T10:41:00.000-08:00

Problem is, Thad, factual arguments spill out from the administration all the time, they just are not covered by the Dem press. If you are looking for facts on Iraq, get ready for one on the 15th. Do you even know what I am talking about?

Thad wrote:"And we haven't even carried out the 9/...

2005-12-06T10:40:00.000-08:00

Thad wrote:"And we haven't even carried out the 9/11 commission's recommendations . . ."
Who elected them? Why would the Bush administration "carry out" recommendations from a Gorelick-tainted commission other than the one's they wanted to anyway? That's silly.
As for the bigger issue of this post--- it may have been an inadvertant rope-a-dope but it was a rope-a-dope for sure.

"The answer is in the phrase, verbal momentum."I c...

2005-12-06T10:37:00.000-08:00

"The answer is in the phrase, verbal momentum."

I call it the rope-adope tactic taken straight from Ali. Sit on the ropes, let them swing and get overconfident and swing too much, take the time to clear your head, then when they have worn themselves down a bit, come out with some well placed jabs.

I think you're definitely right that this is one o...

2005-12-06T09:43:00.000-08:00

I think you're definitely right that this is one of Rove's major strategies - and it has been successful on numerous occasions. But I think what we're seeing in the polls is that, at the end of the day, the whole "let's not make any good factual arguments, and just bust our opponents when they make some controversial quote" approach is no longer working.

The Bush crowd has been underestimating us for way too long, and their narrow defeat over Kerry - a weak candidate who was saddled with unenviable issues like gay marriage - fooled them into thinking that we really were that gullible. At the end of the day, most Americans are rational, common sense people. No great "gotcha" quote can sustain policies that waste billions of dollars and misallocate our defense resources. And we haven't even carried out the 9/11 commission's recommendations . . .

During his first term -- a columnist wrote that Pr...

2005-12-06T09:42:00.000-08:00

During his first term -- a columnist wrote that President Bush enjoys playing and winning at poker.
In this case, he waited until his opponents had played all their cards (losing in Iraq, get out now) -- then laid down his royal flush (Victory in Iraq).

Didn't Mr. Spock also hold an advanced degree, ent...

2005-12-06T09:20:00.000-08:00

Didn't Mr. Spock also hold an advanced degree, entitling him to the honorific Dr.?

From here on out, let us differentiate them as "pointy-eared Dr. Spock" and "round-eared Dr. Spock."

(Uh oh, I may have just committed a terrible galactic racial slur.)

"LOL, the Republican party is in shambles"Hmm. Rep...

2005-12-06T09:04:00.000-08:00

"LOL, the Republican party is in shambles"

Hmm. Republicans hold the White House, the US House of Representatives, the Senate, and most governor's positions.

So keep stomping your feet. It is amusing to watch.

Are we talking about Mr. Spock, the Ac-tor,or Dr. ...

2005-12-06T08:46:00.000-08:00

Are we talking about Mr. Spock, the Ac-tor,

or Dr. Spock, the guy that a generation later (and after he started raising babies himeslf) realized that he was wrong?

Are we talking about Mr. Spock, the Ac-tor,or Dr. ...

2005-12-06T08:42:00.000-08:00

Are we talking about Mr. Spock, the Ac-tor,

or Dr. Spock, the guy that a generation later (and after he started raising babies himeslf) realized that he was wrong?

Are we talking about Mr. Spock, the Ac-tor,or Dr. ...

2005-12-06T08:41:00.000-08:00

Are we talking about Mr. Spock, the Ac-tor,

or Dr. Spock, the guy that a generation later (and after he started raising babies himeslf) realized that he was wrong?